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223 and 308 reloading

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  • #31
    Agreed! but, I do not understand the double tumbling. I think naptha will clean an oily case better than a tumbler? I cannot see diminishing the abrasive qualities of your media by gumming it up with oil? If you tumbled them prior to resizing, I understand that the cases will be oily to some extent, but shiny clean except for the oil? I hand tumble or wipe small batches of resized .223's with an old clean towel dampened with naptha, and then a dry towel. It works for me, and I have no oily residue. (To anyone reading this, Naptha is found as Coleman Camp Fuel in K-Mart or WalMart, and it dries fast. A gallon is really cheap, and should last a few years. Compare it to the price of Ronson lighter fluid; same stuff!) In my previous post, I meant to say I believe progressives work best with straight walled cases, like .38/.357, not that they shouldn't be used for bottle necked cases. Also, if one uses carbide dies for straight wall cases, no need for lube! I also believe spherical fine grain powders meter faster and more consistently than the finer extruded powders; i.e.: I haven't checked AA2230 against Varget as yet for downrange performance.

    Thanks for the comments.

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    • #32
      I deprime with a universal deprimer, tumble, lube and resize, using a die with a teflon button so I don't have to lube inside the case, then trim, swag the primer hole if necessary and retumble. After that normal loading. I use a Reading 7 hole turret press.
      Takes a lot longer to reload then to shoot a round, but it's fun :-)

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      • #33
        The thing which will cause you grief is that manufacturers will have different case lengths. If you're reloading and set up for one Mfg. and the the headstamps all match. you should be good to go. If you mix your brass, you may wind up with excessive crtimp, squished cases, no crimp, or other problems. Best to check for case length with a case length guage or caliper. If you're concerned wbith the inside case lube, try the mentioned Q-tip method for drying any excess oil or just lube the inside of the necks with graphite. It's inert. Case (powder) volume may vary by several grains from Mfg. to Mfg. Some cases really stretch, and CL changes after a few reloadings. Best to be safe. The worst ones are the cases that headspace on case rim like a .30-40 Krag, .30/30, or ,303 Brit. Military .223/5.56 is notorious for heavy crimp, and that extra brass translates to a longer case neck.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by **** YANKEE View Post
          Agreed! but, I do not understand the double tumbling. I think naptha will clean an oily case better than a tumbler? I cannot see diminishing the abrasive qualities of your media by gumming it up with oil? If you tumbled them prior to resizing, I understand that the cases will be oily to some extent, but shiny clean except for the oil? I hand tumble or wipe small batches of resized .223's with an old clean towel dampened with naptha, and then a dry towel. It works for me, and I have no oily residue.
          Don't know about anyone else, but I double tumble simply because I'm lazy. Easy to throw a few hundred rounds in the tunbler and go watch Tampa Bay get beat again :-)
          I haven't noticed any particular degradation in tumbling media, but I agree that your method would leave the cases totally oil free.

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          • #35
            I also use the LEE Factory Crimp dies which aren't as sensitive to case length. And I have become a believer in running every single case through a case gauge. One case jammed in the chamber because the headspace was a 1/1000th long.... grrr.

            I use a single stage press for all of my case prep. By the time I'm ready to load all I'm really doing is dropping powder, seating the pill, and crimping. Even the 9mm when I go to Tampa and load on my buddy's Dillon, the cases have been polished, resized, trimmed, checked, and primed. I go to Tampa and he and I will run 1000 or 2 through the Dillon to powder and pill, then I'll rerun them through the FCD on my single stage when I get home. I just got back from Tampa about 2 hours ago. We loaded 2,000 rounds in about 3 hours. 1000 are Hornady XTP's with 6.7 grains of N330. 1000 are FMJ practice rounds with 5 grains of Universal. We also loaded 400 rounds of Lee Slugs on one of my single stage presses with 25 grains of Universal. Also took the girls out for a great dinner at our favorite Greek restaurant. Good weekend.

            John
            I will not lay down.
            I WILL, however, assume a prone firing position if necessary!

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            • #36
              John..., you make it sound so easy. I'm sure it will make sense once I start reloading. It seems most people are removing the old primer and sizing the case on a single stage press. I don't have a single stage so will need to make the progressive work. I think I'll follow the method Dillon lays out in their manual and the DVD. But I will need to the extra step to swage the brass since I'm reloading Lake City brass. After I have better concept of what I'm doing, I can make alterations to improve the quality of my ammo.

              I have just about everything I need (I hope) except for a trimmer. I figure I can pick one up a Bass Pro or Gander when I need one. Sounds like I may be making trip this week.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Ed308 View Post
                I have just about everything I need (I hope) except for a trimmer. I figure I can pick one up a Bass Pro or Gander when I need one. Sounds like I may be making trip this week.
                My experience has been that once fired cases have lengths all over the map. Once trimmed, though, they seem to stay pretty consistent for the next couple of firings. This has been over a few thousand rounds, mostly 5.56 prvi partizan 62 grain stuff.

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                • #38
                  All rifle cases must be checked for length before loading, and trimmed to a correct lenght, if you do not your bullet will be at different seating depth on every bullett! Clean,deprime,size,trim,lube,load.

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                  • #39
                    Not if you use a LEE Factory Crimp Die.

                    John
                    I will not lay down.
                    I WILL, however, assume a prone firing position if necessary!

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by onebigelf View Post
                      Not if you use a LEE Factory Crimp Die.

                      John
                      maybe you know something i do not, can you explain how a crimp die can eliminate case trimming if thats what you mean? COL will end up the same but bullet will be at different depths if cases of unequal lenghts is used and crimping has nothing to do with COL. If i am wrong please explain! THanks.
                      Jim

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                      • #41
                        As long as case length is within limits, the problem is not with seating depth, at that point you are seating for COL. The protrusion of the bullet into the case is unaffected by slight variations in case length, it's from the bottom up, not the case mouth down. The problem with case length variation is with traditional crimping dies which are adjusted for a specific case length when you set them up. Variations in length then result in either undercrimping (or no crimp) or overcrimping and sometimes crushing the case shoulder. The LEE FCD is not sensitive to these slight variations and crimps properly regardless. Check out their site if you are interested in the mechanics of how it accomplishes this.

                        John
                        I will not lay down.
                        I WILL, however, assume a prone firing position if necessary!

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by onebigelf View Post
                          As long as case length is within limits, the problem is not with seating depth, at that point you are seating for COL. The protrusion of the bullet into the case is unaffected by slight variations in case length, it's from the bottom up, not the case mouth down. The problem with case length variation is with traditional crimping dies which are adjusted for a specific case length when you set them up. Variations in length then result in either undercrimping (or no crimp) or overcrimping and sometimes crushing the case shoulder. The LEE FCD is not sensitive to these slight variations and crimps properly regardless. Check out their site if you are interested in the mechanics of how it accomplishes this.

                          John
                          i use lee factory crimp dies and if i do not trim 556/223 to uniform lenght, i have equal Col but i can see that the crimp is in a different location on the canneleur on the bullet which tells me that the bullet is either seated deeper or further out on each round. Does that make sense, or am i not explaining my thoughts properly.

                          I use mostly range brass that i pick up and the lenght of the cases can be up to 10 thousands different!

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            The shoulder should be int he same place on each case if they are sized properly. As long as the case length is within spec it doesn't matter. The brass is a little further up the bullets on the cases that are longer, a little farther down on the ones that are shorter. The interior case volume with the bullet seated is identical and they are all properly crimped. What you are seeing is visual only. It's like having a slight variation in the length of your socks, They'll cover a little more or a little less of your shin, but it won't affect the fit of your shoe!

                            John
                            I will not lay down.
                            I WILL, however, assume a prone firing position if necessary!

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              It really depends on your use of the rounds. If you are a bench rest shooter, having any difference in case length would probably make your head explode. But if you are shooting at game, or even just shooting targets for practice, minor case length differences won't matter.
                              I normally trim my cases every other reload. For me, that's probably overkill since I just shoot targets and game. But it definitely is something I would not bring up at the bench rest social. That and the lazy fact that I don't drill my primer holes to the same exact size :-)

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